[Yayako Uchida x Hiromi Kurosawa] Rather than "understanding," it's "touching" you. How to approach art that plays with your body and soul
Yayako Uchida is a writer. She has been attracted to art since she was a child, and through her mother, Kirin Kiki, she has had contact with many artists. She currently narrates the program "no art, no life" (NHK Educational TV), which introduces artists who create original works of art. In June 2024, she will be appointed co-director of the Mugonkan Museum, a memorial museum for fallen art students in Nagano Prefecture.
"HERALBONY and the Philosophy of Words" is a series that weaves together the "philosophy of words" with opinion leaders active in various fields. In the fifth installment, Yayako Uchida and Hiromi Kurosawa, chief curator at the Kanazawa 21st Century Museum of Contemporary Art and advisor to HERALBONY, will philosophize about the word "art."
Museums encountered along the journey of her mother, Kiki Kirin
Hiromi Kurosawa (hereinafter, Kurosawa): The narration of "No Art, No Life" is wonderful. I feel a loving gaze towards each artist.
Yayako Uchida (hereinafter, Uchida): Thank you. HERALBONY representatives Fumito Matsuda and Takaya appeared on "No Art, No Life Until Morning" which will be broadcast at the end of 2023. I'm ashamed to say that that was the first time I learned about HERALBONY, and since then I've been following their website and Instagram. It's a one-of-a-kind company, even when looking around the world. Director Hirokazu Koreeda, with whom I have a connection, often says, "When you want to depict a grand theme, dig deep into the subject that is most real to you." HERALBONY, which originated from Fumito and Takaya's feelings for their autistic brother, is exactly that kind of activity, isn't it?
By the way, my eldest daughter, who is attending graduate school in France, told me that she went to see the HERALBONY exhibition in Paris in September. I was envious and wished I could have gone too.
Kurosawa: I see! That's great to hear.
Today's theme is the word "art," and in June, Uchida was appointed co-director of Mugonkan Museum* in Nagano Prefecture. I'm from Nagano Prefecture, and I've visited Mugonkan Museum several times before. It's a museum quietly located in the mountains, with a beautiful, tranquil presence. Combined with the museum's environment, I felt it was a place where I could quietly face the artworks and myself. 
Uchida : A year after my mother passed away, there was a TV program where I was retracing the journey she had taken while she was alive, and that was when I first visited Mugonkan. I remember thinking that it looked like a small church that had been standing for hundreds of years deep in the mountains of Switzerland. I later had a conversation with the museum's director, Seiichiro Kuboshima, for my book "BLANK PAGE: A Journey to Fill the Emptiness." As we deepened our relationship, he invited me to "connect this unique museum to the future together," and I was appointed co-director.
The disadvantages of the reflex of "immediately typing back 140 characters"
Uchida: I'm a little hesitant to be discussing the topic of "art" today, but there's something I'd really like to ask you, Mr. Kurosawa, about your thoughts on the matter.
Mugonkan was established 27 years ago by Kuboshima, who spent three years visiting the families of art students around the country to collect paintings and sculptures left behind by art students who died in the war, and who invested his own funds in the collection. The works on display are by aspiring artists who had not yet become artists, so Kuboshima says they are "technically immature works." However, I am deeply moved by their immaturity and the vitality of their expressions, which are the product of their youth. I would like to convey the charm and strength of these works to the younger generation, but at the same time, for people living in the present day, when the spotlight is focused too strongly on the stories of these artists who had no choice but to end their lives while still "immature," I can't help but feel sorry for them.
I want to see it not as "a painting of poor people whose dreams were shattered by the war," but as a work of art, even if it is technically immature. I think Mr. Kuboshima has this conflict. I empathize with that, but what do you think, Mr. Kurosawa?
Kurosawa: When we hear about art, many people think that "professionals are those who have received art education and honed their skills." However, there are many wonderful expressions and artists in this world who do not follow such "standard routes." There are also works that you may find important even if no one around you says "I like them." I'm sure that Mr. Kuboshima started collecting works because he was so fascinated by the expressions of the art students. On the other hand, if the works are trapped in the "frame" of war and the "frame" of Mugonkan, it may sometimes be necessary to free them from those frames.
Uchida: Kuboshima-san said, "Even if it's just once a year, why not create an opportunity to hide all the captions under the paintings (which include information such as when and where they died in battle and how old they were at death) and have people look at them in that state?" That's also one way to free them from "frames."
Kurosawa: Usually we have a lot of paintings by art students on display, but one day we might display just one painting . You can look at that one painting for as long as you like, and if you don't get it, you can just go home. The great thing about museum exhibitions is that the viewer is given the freedom to choose their own time.
Rather than viewing the many paintings evenly and grasping the Mugonkan as a whole, we ask that you spend time looking at only the paintings that really appeal to you and move you emotionally .
Uchida: I hope we can create such an experience. There is a notebook where visitors can write their impressions, and when Mugonkan was first established, there were a lot of very personal impressions, such as "I really like the color of the obi of the kimono of the woman in the painting. It reminded me of my mother's kimono." Recently, however, there are a lot of anti-war messages such as "Let's save Gaza" and "We will not forgive Russia." Of course, it may be that such feelings welled up when they saw the painting... I wonder what can be done because it is art, and what only art can do.
Kurosawa: The customers who see the paintings at Mugonkan and immediately think, "Let's save Gaza," may have a quick reaction. They have a habit of immediately responding to what they see and information they receive. Probably in about 140 characters.
Uchida: Ah, I practice that kind of thing on social media on a daily basis.
Kurosawa: I feel that the way people approach art and the speed at which they do so are also changing due to changes in the environment. As a curator, I work on the premise that people think and feel differently, and that it is these differences that are interesting, so I am prepared to take on any changes that may come my way.
Does art need a theme or concept?
Uchida: Contemporary art, especially conceptual art, places great importance on the ideas and concepts embedded in the work. For example, if there is an idea or intention at the base, it is also possible to express "this is art" by placing a plastic bottle of water in an empty space. Of course, the viewer is free to interpret it as they wish, but many people appreciate it along with the artist's ideas, intentions, and concepts. However, if we assume that art only exists when there is an explanation of the artist's intentions and concepts, rather than the work itself, then the scope of art seems to become increasingly narrow.
At the opposite end of the spectrum from conceptual art is the artist Tadanori Yokoo. When I visited his studio for "BLANK PAGE: A Journey to Fill the Emptiness," he told me, "When I paint, I try not to think and empty my mind as much as possible." In a state of "nothingness," I hold a brush and stand in front of the canvas, my body moving automatically. As I listened to him say, "My goal is to become lighter and lighter," I felt that Yokoo's art is not something that originates from a theme or concept, but is very physical. And that's okay.
Kurosawa: That's good. Is a theme or concept necessary? If you don't explain it , does the work not work as a work? I think that the reason why viewers cannot appreciate the work without an explanation is probably because we, who call ourselves professionals in the art world, explain too much (laughs). Maybe at some point, we lost trust in the idea that people will automatically understand the work without us doing that . Sometimes, there are customers who complain just because there is no explanation of the work.
Uchida: A complaint? You don't understand unless you explain the work more?
Kurosawa: That's right. And thanks to the kindness of many kind people in the world, the number of explanatory notes keeps increasing. Artists are also affected by this, and now even in art schools and other university education, they are told to "learn presentation skills so that you can properly verbalize and communicate your work." But if you could verbalize it, I don't think you would bother to draw pictures (laughs).
First of all, is it even possible to "understand" a painting? Maybe you just misunderstand something you know a little about, like "I know this painting. It was featured at that gallery the other day."
It's okay to say "I don't like something" in art too
Uchida: Rather than wanting to "understand," I think people dislike "things that we don't understand." That's why they want some kind of labeling. I can sympathize with that feeling. For example, when you're feeling unwell, it can be painful when the condition continues for a long time without knowing the cause. At that time, if you went to the hospital and were told, "You're in pre-menopause," I think you'd feel relieved and say, "Oh, I'm glad I know the cause!" Dealing with things you don't understand is painful, scary, and tiring.
However, the feeling of relief was just a sense of relief that I had been labeled with a genre I had heard before. I don't know if the diagnosis was correct, and even if I did find out, it's not like my condition would improve dramatically (laughs).
In the case of art appreciation, at least you won't get into any trouble if you don't understand something. I hope we don't lose the freedom to play with our body and soul as much as we want.
Kurosawa: When you go shopping for clothes with friends or eat at a restaurant, you each enjoy yourself freely and in your own way. You shouldn't worry about "I need to know more about clothes." So why is it that when you go to a museum to look at art, you can't just have fun like that?
Uchida: It makes you feel a bit formal all of a sudden. It would be nice if it was something you could just walk away from if you felt like you didn't like it after using your five senses.
When I was raising my children in the UK, museums were so familiar to me that if it rained, I would go to a museum to kill time. Even if a child sat on the floor in front of a work of art and drew a picture in a sketchbook, instead of getting scolded, adults would look into the picture and start a conversation. I think it would be good for Japanese children to be able to get closer to museums and artworks on a daily basis.
Kurosawa: The Kanazawa 21st Century Museum of Contemporary Art invites all children studying in Kanazawa city once they reach the fourth grade of elementary school.
Uchida: Wow, that's great!
Kurosawa: It's been 20 years since the museum opened, and the children we invited back then have grown up and now support the museum as volunteers or have become teachers and bring their own children back to visit.
Uchida: The seeds are just starting to sprout.
Kurosawa: I think it's important that adults don't get too hung up on things like, "Let's take this opportunity to teach art" or "Let's develop sensibilities." Even just visiting an art museum once as a child significantly lowers the hurdle for returning. I hope that people can enjoy encountering art as casually as going for a short walk .
In the second part, we will continue to philosophize about "art" with Uchida Yayako, including whether something can be called "art" without the accumulation of skill and training, and the approach that Kurosawa arrived at through the judging process for the international art award "HERALBONY Art Prize 2024."
>> Click here for the second part: Works that get "likes" from everyone are an illusion. What art can do in an age of excessive explanation
▼Click here to see the dress worn by Yayako Uchida
