[Final episode] Creating a world where my brother feels safe. Shota Matsuda, the creator of HERALBONY, appears. "Listening Museum #22" • HERALBONY TONE FROM MUSEUM
"HERALBONY TONE FROM MUSEUM ~Listening Museum~" is a podcast that launched this spring and focuses on artists contracted to the welfare experimental company Heralbony.
Sara Ogawa, an actor, filmmaker, and writer, and Takaya Matsuda, CEO of HERALBONY, served as interviewers, listening closely to the art and focusing on one "unique artist" who looks beyond his work.
The entire Matsuda family appeared in the final episode, which was to be a memorable one. Fumito, the company's vice president and one of Takaya's twin brothers, his older brother Shota, who is also the creator of the mysterious word HERALBONY, and his parents Fumimi and Taeko appeared and talked about the journey that led to the creation of HERALBONY and its future plans.
We bring you the final episode of Heralbony's new welfare experiment on radio.
#What my three sons want to do is the most important thing
Ogawa: This is the final episode of the "Listening Museum" that started in the spring, so it's fitting that we have invited people with deep ties to HERALBONY to appear as guests. Takaya, please introduce yourself.
Takaya: We will be participating as a family of five - twins Takaya and Fumito Matsuda, our mother, father, and older brother. We look forward to working with you!
Ogawa: That's wonderful. Thank you to the whole family for coming out.
Takaya: Are you and your family nervous?
Taeko: Yes, I do.
Takaya: Don't you think it's a happy thing to have your son appear on the radio?
(Everyone laughs)
Fumino: How do you feel?
Taeko: People always say that to me. "Aren't you happy?" (laughs)
Takaya: Well, I just thought it would be really nice if I was invited on my daughter's radio show like this.
Taeko: I'm happy.
Fumiya : I think it's really wonderful. Thank you.
Ogawa: Thank you very much. I understand that you are sending this from your home in Iwate today. I look forward to working with you, Shota.
Shota: I will!
Ogawa: Thank you. We talked about the origin of the company name HERALBONY in the first episode, but it was inspired by something Shota wrote in his notebook, right?
Takaya: That's right. But every time I ask Shota, he says, "I don't know!" It remains a mystery.
Fumito: What does Heralbony mean, Shota?
Taeko: What is Heralbony?
Shota: I don't know!
Taeko: I don't know.
Shota: Matsuda cancer is no longer a disease!
Fumito: My grandfather's name was Matsuda Cancer, and when he died of cancer, Shota kept saying "Matsuda Cancer is gone," and he would say it loudly in various places.
Shota: It's gone!
Taeko: Come to think of it, when I first heard about Heralbony, I said it was a horse.
Ogawa: Is it good?
Takaya: That's right. There was a time when when I asked "What does Heralbony mean?" he would say "Horse!"
Ogawa: Is it a horse horse?
Fumito: Yes. I guess he thought it was a Heraldic "pony."
Ogawa: But, if you say it looks like a horse, it certainly does. Now that you mention it, it does look like a horse.
Fumito: That's why the Heralbony brand logo is designed in such a way that it swirls around and looks like a horse mark when viewed from the side.
Ogawa: Ah! Is that so? I've never heard of that before!
Fumiya : At the time, people with disabilities were doing horse riding because it was good for them. I think it might have been drawn around that time. I don't know if it was really a horse though. I do remember writing "Heralbony" on it.
Ogawa: I see. So maybe the image of a horse was spreading deep in your heart.
Fumiya : I won't say it now though.
Takaya: However, since we've already taken a lot of trademarks and names from horses, I'm a bit worried about what we'll do if they change in the future (laughs). Like, "It was a cat!"
Ogawa: Hehe. There's a possibility that things might change.
Taeko: (What is Heralbony?) He gets asked that question so many times that Shota says, "I don't know anymore!"
Takaya: That's right. I've been asked that question so many times that it's become like a taboo phrase.
Taeko: "Not again!" (laughs)
Fumiya : That's right!
Ogawa: We've heard Shota's story many times on this podcast, but I'd like to ask his mother and father again about what they have noticed and felt while raising Shota, Takaya, and Fumito.
Taeko-san: I already had an image of how I wanted to raise my children. I thought, "Until about elementary school, I want them to play with friends more than studying," and "I want them to have lots of different experiences." I thought there were a lot of things they could learn by playing with friends, and that it was a very important thing in life. I also wanted to listen carefully to what they had to say, let them do what they wanted as much as possible, and support them.
Ogawa: Great.
Taeko-san: Thank you. I don't know if it was exactly like that, but I raised them with the hope that they would do that. As for Fumito and Takaya, Shota had a disability, so I really didn't want them to think, "Because my brother has a disability, we couldn't do what we wanted to do," and I raised them as much as possible to avoid that. Of course, I feel sorry for Fumito and Takaya, but I also feel sorry for Shota for being thought of that way. I was careful about that when I raised him.
Ogawa: I see. What about your father?
Fumiya : I worked for a financial institution, but I was always away from home. I would come home on Friday and go back to my place of work on Monday morning. When I was little, my wife never said, "You can't do it because you have a disability," but she took us to various welfare organizations, gave us a variety of experiences, and took Shota to events with both able-bodied and non-abled people. She never hid her disability, and I think that's what you might call my wife's "conviction." I've always thought she was amazing. I often left the upbringing of our children entirely up to my wife, but I'm glad that our children grew up in that environment.
Ogawa: All three of you were really free to go out to all kinds of places. Takaya, Fumito, do you remember those times?
Takaya: Just like my mother said, I don't remember being stopped from doing anything. In that sense, we were certainly able to do a lot of things freely. Also, we ourselves never felt that we couldn't do anything because we had a disabled brother, so in that sense, I'm grateful. However, I only realize now that it must have been really hard for my father and mother to raise three small children. One time, (Shota) was having a fun conversation with his mother, and when his father came home, his brother suddenly sounded desperate and said something like, "Welcome home..." (laughs). I've seen him many times in a state where he was like, "I'm completely worn out," and suddenly change the channel.
Ogawa: What about you, Fumito?
Fumito: That's a memorable experience for me too. But as Takaya said, I think the experience of being given the freedom to do what I wanted is still useful to me today. There are cases where the so-called "siblings" of disabled people, whose parents only spend time with the disabled child, end up feeling like they aren't given any attention at all, but we ourselves were able to proactively access various places on our own.
Takaya: Well, it actually felt like I was participating.
Fumito: Yes, to a group.
Takaya: Rather than our time being divided up, it felt like I was participating together with my brother.
Fumito: Those were my days. Rather than being with my parents, although they were there in that space, I spent a lot of time being loved by a lot of different people.
Ogawa: It seems like your parents treated you as people with respect. What about you, Shota? Do you have any memories from your childhood?
Takaya: Shota, what did you like as a child? Shota, you liked the horizontal bar, right?
Taeko: I used to walk on monkey bars and stuff.
Takaya: Shota, do you remember the horizontal bar?
Shota: Horizontal bar.
Fumiya : And karaoke. Mito Komon. What else was it?
Shota: I don't know.
Taeko: And take some pictures.
Fumiya : You were taking pictures.
Ogawa: Rumor has it that he loves Tamori.
Takaya: That's right.
Taeko: I like Tamori.
Ogawa: You mentioned earlier that you didn't try to stifle your children's desire to do things, but how did your parents feel when they heard about you starting up Heralbony?
Fumiya : Before founding HERALBONY, I started a company called MUKU, but when my sons had finally graduated from university and were in their fourth year of working at a company, I was told that he was going to quit suddenly, and I was quite confused. To be honest, I was shocked. I listened to him, but it didn't make sense to me at all. He had no vision or anything...
Takaya: No, I had a vision!
Fumito: We had a very clear vision!
Fumiya : Well, maybe they had a vision. But when you look at the welfare industry, you don't know what the loan system is like, you don't know the credit rating, and there are things that need to be done, but they said, "I just want to do it." As a father, I understand that passion, but that alone makes it difficult to do art in the welfare industry. After all, the welfare industry has built its history on the cooperation of NPOs and local governments. In that context, we were told to start a corporation, so as parents, I was worried. Even so, (Takaya and Fuminori) never listened to what they were told!
Takaya: Hehe.
Fumiya : Anyway, he said, "I'm quitting (the company)!" I was like, what is this? However, although I said earlier that he was strongly against it, I think that he was determined to start a company without heeding his parents' advice, and now I think that he was very determined. And about that...
Fumito: It's long, long!
(Everyone laughs)
Fumiya: Only 30 seconds left! Takaya had a strong desire to learn. Fumitou is a competitive person. Both twins have strong feelings for each other and are working hard with a lot of determination. I want them to do their best now.
It is.
Ogawa: I imagine that because your father and mother were both in the welfare system, they had a lot of worries. How did your mother feel?
Taeko: My dad talked a lot... (laughs).
Takaya: I can really tell that Dad is dying to talk!
Fumiya : What are you talking about? (laughs) Then next time I'll talk shorter.
Taeko: I didn't originally have any hopes for my sons to work with people with disabilities or in the welfare field. I thought that if they actually worked in that field, they would often be troubled by the gap between the ideals they had as a family and reality. In their school essays when they were little, they wrote, "I want to be a teacher at a special needs school," but I don't think I ever encouraged them to do that. So I was surprised when they first told me, but I was happy that they had been watching Shota for so long and wanted to do that kind of work.
Ogawa: Thank you. I have been watching you and Takaya from the sidelines, and I think that the combination that your father mentioned earlier, "the inquisitive Takaya and the competitive Fumito," has a positive impact on the management of HERALBONY. Is there anything you think about as your parents watching you two as business managers?
Fumito: Well, people are really starting to look down on me as a manager!
(Everyone laughs)
Fumito: When I go back to my parents' house I hear things like "Did you do this? Did you do that?" which seem like obvious things.
Fumiya : Compliance issues and things like that are tough these days, aren't they? I often hear people say, "I know that!"
Parents are always worried.
Taeko-san: I wonder if I am really doing my job as a manager. I think I am supported by wonderful staff members.
Ogawa: Employees from Heralbony also come to the recording of this podcast, and the atmosphere is just so great. I think that's because the two people at the top are so wonderful.
Takaya: Well, what do you think?
Taeko: Ahahaha!
Fumiya : Their parents don't often praise them, but I think they both have good character.
Fumito: Wow, that was a huge compliment (laughs). Thank you!
# An even relationship with his older brother Shota
Ogawa: Shota, you also go to HERALBONY events and wear their clothes, right?
Shota: Uh, uh, yeah. Yeah.
Takaya: But Shota, you only wear blue clothes, right? Kudo Midori's blue. Ah, he's wearing it now!
Taeko: He has very strong preferences, so I buy him lots of things thinking that they will make him happy, but when I show them to him he says, "I won't wear it! I won't wear it!"
Takaya: I don't wear any at all.
Ogawa: Wow!
Taeko: It's always like this.
Takaya: It looks like a uniform. A blue T-shirt.
Taeko: This is my favorite.
Ogawa: So you have paintings by your favorite artists.
Taeko: But this isn't for sale.
Ogawa: Oh, is that so?
Fumito: I want to show you the picture on the T-shirt, but you won't.
Fumiya : (to Shota) Okay, stand up.
(Shota stands up)
Takaya: Ah, I see it, I see it!
Fumito: Right now, it's the last minute. Ah, I can't see anymore (laughs).
Takaya: Her name is Midori Kudo and she uses a thick Mackie pen to create rain-like, beep-beep-beep artwork.
Midori Kudo "(Untitled) (Blue)"
Ogawa: The piece that is used as the key visual for this podcast is also one of yours, right?
Takaya: That's right!
Takaya: Also, Shota-san really loves playing with words. Maybe we should do something like Shinkansen? Let's go, Shota-san! Ready, go!
Matsuda family: What a silence!
Ogawa: Thank you for your amazing smile! I had heard about it, but this was the first time I actually saw it!
Takaya: And (in falsetto) what about you sumo wrestler?
Shota: Hey sumo wrestler!
Ogawa: Oh, I had heard about this too!
Takaya: I like a sumo wrestler called Sanoyama.
Shota: Yeah! Yeah!
Ogawa: I think Shota has a lot of preferences, but I saw in a video before that he always stops and takes a break whenever he goes outside the house.
Takaya: That's right. It freezes up for a moment and then comes out after about 10 seconds.
Taeko: I also open and close the door many times. When I get in the car, I open and close the door so many times that I think it might break, and when I put down a cup, I tap it. Just when I think I've done it right, it starts again, tap tap tap tap. It seems like I have my own timing. I keep doing it until I find it.
Ogawa: Are there signs saying things like, "Don't slam the door too hard"?
Takaya: That's posted up in a group home that provides visual support.
Taeko: At home, I write down my schedule for the weekend and check it the day before.
Ogawa: Do you go to the group home on weekdays?
Taeko: Yes, that's right. I'll pick you up on Friday after 3pm and drop you off on Monday.
Ogawa: How do you spend your time at the group home?
Taeko: I heard there is a schedule for the group home, but Shota decides his own schedule. So he's gradually drifting away from the group home schedule. He eats his meals, takes a bath, goes to his room, and spends his time according to his own schedule.
Ogawa: I see. Were Shota, Fumito, and Takaya close since they were little? What was it like spending time together?
Takaya: We used to play together a lot. Like tag. (Shota) would say "Wait!", which meant to chase after him, and when he said that, I would chase after him. Also, in the bathroom, we would play by shoving ourselves into the bathtub. I liked those kinds of really simple things.
Fumito: I love things like the Frustrating Stick.
Takaya: That's why we played around with that kind of stuff. Also wordplay and stuff.
Ogawa: Did you ever get into fights?
Fumito: It happened a lot when we were little. If our mother told us that we would be home at 6pm, as an older brother I would panic if we didn't come home on time. So I would say to us twins, "Why aren't you coming home at 6pm?" and we would end up fighting, or rather, punching each other.
Takaya: Because our bodies are different sizes. We were around 6 years old and he was 10, so there was a difference in our physiques and he was really strong.
Taeko: What? You were going to lose?
Takaya: I remember him locking the door, not that he was about to lose. After he locked the door, my brother started crying, banging on the wall and screaming, "Is mom coming back?!" It was like a scene from hell. When things go awry, my brother can't predict what's going to happen and he can't bear it.
Taeko-san: Back then. Looking back now, I wish I had told him exactly what time I was coming home. If I hadn't done that, Shota wouldn't have known.
Takaya: But at that time, we developed some kind of survival skills. Shota was really scared of water. I wonder why? Anyway, when I said, "I'm going to pour water on you," he'd say, "Stop it!" I don't think it's the same now. At the time, our fear of water may have saved us (laughs).
Taeko: That's the first time I've heard that.
Ogawa: Even between parents and children, there are many aspects of siblings that we don't know about. Do you have any recent memories or stories from spending time with your family?
Takaya: Recently, Shota and I have been spending a lot of time together, playing with my daughter. My daughter jumps into the ball pool, and my brother jumps in with a bang, so I think it's a little dangerous for a 35-year-old to jump in. In that sense, I think it would be nice to have a ball pool or park where everyone can play, and watching my daughter play with my brother has given me ideas.
Ogawa: I see. Does your son also play with you?
Fumito: That's right. Recently my son has been showing a strong competitive spirit towards Shota.
Takaya: I see (laughs).
Fumito was showing off things like, "Shota, don't do this!" and "I can do this!" and they really seemed to interact as equals, so I think that even though he's only 2 years old, he understands Shota's feelings in his own way.
Taeko-san: But until recently, we had that kind of rivalry, but the other day, we were calling out to Shota, like, "Shota, what are you going to do?" I guess he felt like he was someone we could call out to.
Takaya: Shota can't forgive someone taking the remote control while he's watching TV. He even tells my daughter, "Stop it, stop it, stop it!" My daughter has never been angry at a time like that, and Shota is just scolding her, but she bursts into tears over it.
Taeko: You were crying.
Fumito: My son is the same. Then my son told Shota, "Don't say that!" and we started fighting. But that kind of flat relationship is comfortable and interesting.
Ogawa: That's great. Your relationship has expanded to include your two children.
Fumiya : Can I ask you something too?
Ogawa: Yes!
Fumiya : When Shota was in the upper grades of elementary school, and Takaya and Fuminori were in the lower grades, there was a fireworks festival. I had to work, so my wife took the three of them. When I got home from work, I got a phone call from my wife crying, "Shota's not here!" But Shota was right next to me at the time. I said, "Shota, I'm at home," and she said, "What?!" I was shocked. That's because the fireworks festival was more than three kilometers away from our house. Also, the venue for the fireworks festival was large, and surrounded by woods. Shota came home alone from all that. I still can't forget that moment.
Ogawa: Maybe Shota was remembering the way in his own way.
Fumiya : That may be true. Yes, I think I remember.
#Aiming for a world where my brother can feel safe
Ogawa: Heralbony is celebrating its fifth anniversary, and it's been really inspiring to see how much it has grown even in just the few months that this podcast has been out. Is there anything you are aiming for with Heralbony going forward?
Fumito: What do you think, Taeko?
Taeko: Eh, me?
Ogawa: Well, let me ask your mother. Is there anything you wish for regarding Heralbony?
Taeko-san: Families of people with disabilities often tell us that HERALBONY is a source of hope, and I think we've been able to celebrate our fifth anniversary thanks to the growing number of people who sympathize with and support HERALBONY. So, I want to continue to move forward together with those people and see the society that HERALBONY aims for.
Ogawa: Thank you. How about your father?
Fumiya : As my wife said earlier, I want the company to be one with dreams and hopes. I also want the employees to always hold on to the vision that "disabilities are not defects, they are individuality" and work hard without wavering. And lastly, this is just my personal feeling, but I want them to always be grateful to their colleagues as they move forward. Because I think relationships with people are the most important thing. That's all!
Ogawa: Thank you. How about you, Takaya and Fumito?
Takaya: In the immediate world, I want HERALBONY to become something beautiful that everyone knows and takes for granted. Like wearing it as beautiful clothing, or realizing when you grow up, "The curtains in my childhood room were made of HERALBONY."
Takaya: Thank you! What about you, Shota?
Shota: Yes.
Fumito: When Takaya was talking earlier, he yawned really loudly (laughs).
Takaya: Haha! But Shota, you often come to my lectures and you see your own picture on the slides.
When I call them, they say, "Shota!"
(Shota stares at the screen)
Fumito: Your gaze is strong! Your eyes are fixed!
Takaya: You can't really tell on the radio, but Shota sometimes glares at you and looks like he's glaring at you.
Taeko: I'm a little nearsighted. Don't be scared, I'm kind.
Fumito: Because I have big eyes.
Ogawa: Today was a wonderful time that felt peaceful and hopeful, like a family get-together. Thank you very much!
Takaya: Thank you very much!
Ogawa: This podcast started in April and now it's coming to an end. Thank you very much.
Takaya: Thank you very much for the wonderful time!
Ogawa: It's so stimulating to meet so many different artists every time, and I've been able to encounter so much great art. Thank you so much!
Takaya: It was all thanks to Sara.
Fumiya : That's true.
Fumito: I'm looking forward to it in Iwate too!
Ogawa: Yes! I'm really looking forward to going to Iwate!
Fumito: We look forward to seeing you.
Ogawa: Shota, please wait for your mother and father too.
Fumiya : Please come to Iwate!
Ogawa: Finally, do you have any messages for our listeners, Takaya and Fumito?
Takaya: People have told us at exhibitions that they are listening to the podcast, and we've also received direct contact, so I think we've been able to provide real, in-depth information through this podcast. Although the show itself will be coming to an end for now, it's been a very interesting experience for us personally, and we hope to be able to revive it someday, so please look forward to it. And from now on, HERALBONY will continue to forge ahead, so we appreciate your continued support!
Ogawa: Please join us, Fumito!
Fumito: I think that the fact that this podcast will continue to exist, and the time that you all spent together on this program, has become an experiment that is characteristic of the Welfare Experiment Company, creating a new form of audio on radio where people with disabilities can appear as a matter of course. I hope to evolve this in a way that can reach even more people, and that I can meet you again in the future. Thank you very much for listening!
Ogawa: Thank you. Looking back, there have been many unique writers on this podcast, some of whom stood up and others who left their seats.
Fumito: That's right!
Takaya: That's right!
Ogawa: Some people left the stage, some people started singing, and we had a lot of really free and fun times. You can continue to listen to the archives over and over again, so I hope you will all enjoy listening to them again. And there are still many wonderful and unique artists, so if there's a time when we feel like "we have to have this one perform!", let's revive it again!
Takaya: Sure! Let's do that.
Fumito: As for Shota, he looks like he's about to fall asleep.
Fumiya : I've been working hard for the past 30 minutes!
Takaya: You must be tired. Shota, did you have fun?
Shota: It was fun!
Takaya: Oh, that's great!
Ogawa: Thank you very much to Takaya, Fuminori, your mother Taeko, your father Fumiya , and Shota for today! Finally, let's all say "HERALBONY" together.
Takaya: Shall we do it? Ready, go!
"Heralbony!"
"HERALBONY TONE FROM MUSEUM ~Listening Museum~" is now available for free
Based on the concept of "imagining the history of an unconventional artist through his art," this program listens closely to the art and touches upon the personality and life story of one "unconventional artist" that can be seen beyond his work.
The two MCs are Sara Ogawa, an actor, filmmaker and writer, and Takaya Matsuda, CEO of HERALBONY. Each episode focuses on a writer under contract with HERALBONY, and welcomes intellectually disabled writers, their families and welfare facility staff as guests.
It is available every Sunday on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, and Amazon Music.
You can also enjoy back issues for free.
