"HERALBONY has made everyone involved happy" - Interview with Editor Ayumi Gunji (Part 1)
We are starting a new series called "HERALBONY & PEOPLE" in which we talk to people who support HERALBONY.
In this series, we will be interviewing people from all walks of life who are in tune with HERALBONY's activities and business. We will ask these people, who stand out in a variety of fields, including art, business, design, welfare, and culture, "What does HERALBONY mean to you?" We will take a peek into each person's lifestyle and values and unravel their unique HERALBONY.
The first episode was titled "HERALBONY from an Editor's Perspective" and featured Gunji Sayumi, an editor and fashion creative director. Gunji learned about HERALBONY in 2021 and was shocked by its business model. She always visits pop-ups held in Tokyo.
Influenced by his parents, Gunji had many opportunities to come into contact with art brut from an early age, and we will be speaking with him in three parts.
Part 1: "HERALBONY has made everyone involved happy" Interview with editor Ayumi Gunji → Current article
Part 2: No need for discerning taste. Editor Ayumi Gunji's "Recommendations for buying art that will last a lifetime"
Part 2: Ayumi Gunji: "HERALBONY's next challenge is the democratization of art"
About my mother, who worked in the education of children with disabilities
--Thank you for always supporting HERALBONY. I'm glad that you come to our events so often.
Gunji Ayumi (hereafter Gunji): Thank you. Ever since I first learned about Heralbony, I thought what it was trying to do was really amazing.
I first learned about HERALBONY in 2021. Before that, I had occasionally seen their pop-up shops and had heard the name, but I didn't know much about them.
Keiko Hamada, then editor-in-chief of the business media "Business Insider (BI)", told me "There's an interesting company!" and I went to cover it for a series I was in charge of. It was a series called "Think Next" that interviewed people who were creating business models for the new era, and that's when I went to talk to the company's president, Takaya Matsuda, and that's how I first met him.
--The article from that time was this ( Overturning the notion that "works by people with disabilities = cheap" - Heralbony aims for a world where anyone can be the protagonist ). It was two years ago now.
Gunji: I was wearing a HERALBONY mask right in the middle of the COVID-19 pandemic. I remember being shocked and moved when I heard about HERALBONY's business model. Above all, I thought it was really amazing that they had turned art by people with disabilities, which tends to be confined to the welfare field, into a business.
I think my own background played a big role in why I was so shocked.
I was born and raised in Hitachinaka City, Ibaraki Prefecture, and my mother was involved in educating children with disabilities as a volunteer. My mother graduated from high school and became a hairdresser, and was a very sociable person who got along with everyone equally. After she quit her job at the salon, someone invited her to volunteer in education. I remember that she was passionate about educating children with disabilities, and attended psychology courses at university.
Since I was in that kind of environment from an early age, I was quite close to people who were called "disabled." It was a very natural environment in which there were children with autism and Down's syndrome in my family.
--That was around the 1970s.
Gunji: Yes, that's right. I think that's about it. My mother often read books about Nemunoki Gakuen, a special needs school founded by singer and actress Mariko Miyagi (1920-2020) as a charity, and she had a lot of respect for her.
Because of this, I often saw pictures drawn by the children at Nemunoki Gakuen from my childhood. Of course, I also had many opportunities to see pictures drawn by the children in the class for disabled children where my mother was active .
With that kind of background, I think I was able to view the work of the Heralbony artists with an unbiased eye from the very beginning.
Discovering the world of Art Brut as a university student
-I didn't know that Gunji had that kind of background.
Gunji: Actually, I was influenced not only by my mother but also by my father. My father loved art, and he often took me to art museums from when I was in elementary school. As a result, there were art books in the house and I was often exposed to art. At the same time, I became obsessed with Shibusawa Tatsuhiko from high school, so I started to be exposed to the world of Art Brut around the 1980s.
Even back then, I viewed their works as the work of incredibly talented people, the work of outstanding special abilities. In other words, from the start, I felt uncomfortable with the idea of viewing them as "works by people with disabilities."
That's what I've been doing since I was a child, so when I met Takaya Matsuda two years ago and heard about "making art by people with disabilities into a business," I was really shocked. I thought it was wonderful that he was doing business with talented artists on an equal footing, not as an extension of welfare.
I knew from my childhood that they had incredible talent that we could never reach , but at the same time, I was well aware of the difficulties it would be for their work to leave the welfare field and make a living in the business world, so I think that made the impact all the more profound.
--That's right. We at HERALBONY are committed to establishing ourselves as a business, not in the context of support. At the same time, we value the idea that people with disabilities are not dependent on us, but that we are supported by them to be able to do business.
The value of miscellaneous goods comes from the fact that the art is genuine
Gunji: Actually, I spoke to Takaya Matsuda about this during an interview two years ago .
That was, " Wouldn't it be great to display the works of artists as art in the HERALBONY shop? " At the time, I had seen many items such as umbrellas, bags, and handkerchiefs printed with the works, but when you move away from the artwork, it just becomes a "pattern."
There are a lot of goods with "patterns" printed on them in the world, but I don't want that to happen to the works of the artists at HERALBONY. I want the value of their work to be recognized, and for them to be able to make a living as "artists" rather than simply "people who create original illustrations for goods." That's what I said after the interview .
-- Thanks to the advice from Gunji, there are now more opportunities for people to see and purchase the original artworks, starting with the currently ongoing Roppongi pop-up and opening in brick-and-mortar stores.
Gunji: Yes, this comes down to how you think about the relationship between art and miscellaneous goods.
When you go to an art museum, you can see Van Gogh's "Sunflowers" being sold as handkerchiefs. That is a work that is valued at tens of billions of yen, and on top of that, handkerchiefs and T-shirts are being sold in the shop. You have to be careful not to get the order wrong.
Although the artworks themselves are too expensive to buy, you can take them home in the form of goods. Museum shops are the place to buy that joy. Because there is the "real thing" of art, the goods made from it also have value.
--You are now focusing not only on the licensing business but also on the art business. In July of last year, you established a new art department.
Gunji: Last year (2023), I visited two pop-up shops: the exhibition "ART IN YOU (held from May 20th to June 17th)" held at the Earth Garden on the 1st floor of the Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation East Building and the "Unique Department Store 2023 Summer (held from July 26th to August 8th)" held in Nihonbashi. I feel that HERALBONY is now clearly practicing "elevating art." It is clear that the status of the artists as artists is rising.
At the "Heralbony 4th Anniversary The Colours!" event held in Roppongi two years ago (2022), I was interested in a piece but was too busy to buy it, but by the time it was in Nihonbashi, the price had doubled. The difference in price is tangible proof that the artist's status has risen. I think that's wonderful.
Up until now, artworks by people with disabilities have been sold. However, it was in the context of welfare. That's why the prices were low. However, HERALBONY has completely separated itself from that. I think it is this one point that has made HERALBONY so happy for everyone involved.
I think it's really amazing and I respect that they have created a system that is not based on welfare, but rather says, "You have talent, so we will pay you this much."
Thank you. The compensation of Heralbony's contracted artists has increased 8.7 times in the past two years. Some artists have increased their income and are now able to file tax returns.
A brand that sparks conversation
Gunji: That's the thing I feel most strongly about Heralbony, but there's actually one other thing I think is good about it.
This means that "expansion" is created.
When I was doing an interview two years ago, I bought a mask and handkerchief for myself, and a handkerchief as a gift for a friend. When I was wearing the mask, people who saw it would talk to me and give me lots of compliments. The same goes for the handkerchief. When I give a gift to a friend, I want to tell them about HERALBONY's philosophy. Just explaining it makes people interested. And when people hear it, they learn about HERALBONY, and they become the ones who spread the word, and maybe even become HERALBONY fans. In that sense, I like the fact that there is room for various "realizations" and "expansion" to occur.
--The value of art is spreading throughout the world, not just as "miscellaneous goods," but as a product with a story. That makes us very happy.
The concept behind the brand is to be "a brand that inspires people to share their stories." We believe that if someone is inspired to share their story, it will eventually grow into a big wave, which will help us achieve our big mission of changing the perception of disabilities.
In the second episode, we will ask Gunji about why he decided to incorporate the habit of "buying art" into his lifestyle.
